Jen: Hey guys, it’s Jen. I have been so busy you would not even fucking… I accidentally gave myself homework. I said Hey you know what, persons who I can be responsible to? How about I be beholden to you in this random way that I came up with myself? This burden I’ve created, would you like to have it when I’m done?
That’s what I did. So, in the meantime, here is an OldBodies… This is actually, this is very special because this is from our OldBodies Patreon.
Excisions! Hosted on Patreon and Substack. Again, it is the social and gossip material that is excised from what we attempt at a medical comedy podcast. That’s what this is, because I accidentally ask people if I can do things for them, and now I am stuck doing them.
So, here we go!
Joy: …Individuals who go out and get the sleeve, they weren't fat babies, they weren't fat kids, they weren't fat adolescents, they gained their weight in adulthood. I came out the size of a construction worker. I was a fat kid. I wore the husky jeans from Sears. My mom used to make me squat in the store to make sure I had enough seat space. Yeah, she would tell me to squat.
I always had, I was a fat kid. I've always been at least 50 pounds overweight, 25 to 50 pounds overweight. I was just a big kid.
My mom was from South Carolina, so— Even though we lived in New York at that time, I didn't eat processed junk, I ate straight up southern cooking. So that contributed to my weight gain. But that was her love language, was feeding. Like, I'd come home from school and she'd give me a pastrami sandwich, and then three hours later we'd eat dinner. Even though she may have given me half of a pastrami sandwich, she still gave it to me. So I didn't get an apple or an orange or anything like that. She fed her baby because she thought I was hungry, and I ate it because it tasted good.
I'm on the fence when it comes to teaching children about— There's a fine line between teaching your children healthy eating habits and low key ingraining them to be fatphobic. And you have to walk, navigate that line very carefully. Do you want them to establish healthy eating habits because it's good for them? Or is this because you don't like fat people? Fat bodies exist. I have one. We're here. We're not going anywhere.
Someone such as myself, when I told you, when I saw— that show, Thousand Pound Sisters, I saw their doctor. So here's a little backstory. That doctor, his name is Charles Proctor, Charles Proctor Jr. He used to be partners with my doctor. There was three of them. Yes, they practiced at the Center for Weight Management.
They were approached by [TLC] to do a show, an idea for a show that showcased bariatric patients. Gwinnett Medical, before they were purchased by Northside, they were a private hospital. Gwinnett Medical said no. Dr. Proctor said, I want that money. He left the trio, started his own practice, Beltline Bariatrics in Atlanta.
Gram: When, do you know how long had the show been in existence before you saw them?
Joy: Before I saw Dr. Proctor? At least a good two or three years. And he's had other offshoots as well. Family by the Ton. Unlike My 600 Pound Life, which I despise.
Gram: I was going to ask about that.
Joy: I hate that show because that doctor is so nasty and belittling. Now I understand he's dealing with people sometimes, who are very manipulative. They're used to getting their way. They manipulate family and friends and all that. So I understand why to a degree he has to be that way. But as far as your opening shot is a 600 pound woman trying to squeeze into a shower, that's unnecessary. You don't need that. Just tell the story.
Whereas with Dr. Proctor, when he had thousand pound sisters and family by the ton, he didn't do any of that. He was legitimately trying to help families. I had a consultation with Dr. Proctor in 2019. I went to go see him and I said, look, I had the sleeve, I regained my weight. This is my story. He said, I know your surgeon. I used to be, I was partners with him. He's excellent. Great guy. Excellent. I left it at that. I didn't want to, it's none of my business. I left it at that. But he said, you had a great surgeon.
I want, I would like to get a revision. My family is not supportive of that at all. They think I will die.
Gram: I mean, I understand the concern. Did you have any complications with the first surgery?
Joy: The surgery was so damn good, it was short.
Gram: Okay. So do you know where their concern comes from then?
Joy: Because it's major surgery. And my family is of the mindset, you don't have surgery unless you absolutely need it. Unless you've been hit by a Mack truck, or there's something that needs to be done like a transplant or something of that nature, no. My sister has made it clear— You get a revision, that's fine, but you can't live here, because I'm not going to take care of a corpse.
Gram: That's fucked up.
Joy: It's her, her fear is that deep.
Gram: But the thing is, that's controlling your life in a fucked up way. Like you're, are you… I mean, it seems like you're still pursuing it anyway. So you're not totally letting it get to you. But that's fucked up.
Joy: It is. I was debating whether or not saying anything. But that's, that's how she feels. But it comes, I don't think it comes from a place of control. It comes from absolute fear of something going wrong. I got lucky the first time around, something could go wrong the second time around. And then she's— her coworker died from complications of having gastric bypass. So that, she was very close to her coworker and they left the scalpel or some shit inside of her.
Gram: Oh my God. What the fuck!
Joy: And she went into sepsis.
Gram: Okay. But also.
Annette: Joy, I have a question. How much would you say— We started off talking about fatphobia. How much has fatphobia affected your weight loss journey and your mentality? Of kind of wanting to fight back, maybe even feeling comfort in the fatness?
Joy: I do. I feel very comfortable in being fat in the sense of people don't approach me. It's my comfort. It's all I know. I think it does affect some of my personality. I'm very leery of people, very wary of them because— I don't like eating in public, for instance. In social situations like going to Barnes and Noble or something like that, I can't handle it. I just can't. I can't handle sitting there, eating my food. I feel like I'm being watched, I'm being judged, I'm being scrutinized. I can't do it. So part of me resents the fact that I have to lose weight.
I resent it because I have to do it. So these other underlying conditions will be under control, but I know what, I hate it. And I think part of me really believes, and I think there's a lot of truth in this— I regained weight on purpose. I was infuriated at the way people treated me when I lost 110 pounds.
Gram: And the way people treated you as in?
Joy: People that I had worked with for seven years who never spoke to me. Oh, I see you skinny mini. What are you up to? What? I've sat next to you for seven years and you've never spoken to me a day in your damn life, but now it's okay? No, it's not okay. And I really hate it. I really, really was enraged on a daily basis seeing how I was treated, how guys responded by opening up doors. It's little things like that, that you see there— Fatphobia is, is real. It affects, I've known for, I've known that I didn't get certain jobs because I was heavy.
Jessica, for instance, she relegated me to working in the kids salon instead of the main salon. She didn't want me to work in the main salon because she didn't want a fat girl at her front desk. So she made me work at the kids salon so I could be like a fat mammy over there.
Gram: Jesus.
Joy: That's Jessica. I pray every single day she slips on ice and gets a hematoma. Every single day. I hate that woman with a passion. You will always be a piece of shit in my book. You are nothing. And you are— the only reason why Jessica has a salon and she's successful is because her sister, her fat ass sister did it. Jennifer built that empire for her and all she did in return was shit on her sister. Jennifer's a good, Jennifer's a business woman. Jessica's a manipulator. She could sell water to a well. There's a big difference. She's charismatic. She's a bullshitter. And again, she's a manipulator. I'm still friends with Jennifer to this day.
Gram: Oh really? I didn't know that.
Joy: I can still go to her for a referral if I need it. If I need an employment referral, anything. When Jessica fired me, that woman sat there and cried. She said, I have no control over this and it pisses me off. And I got fired from Salon Red because two of the stylists left and Jessica was convinced that I gave them their client list. What she didn't know was that her cousin gave them the list two weeks prior to them leaving.
Gram: Who is it? Was her cousin also a stylist at the salon or how did her cousin..?
Joy: No, Matthew was kind of like the handyman, he did all the product and whatnot. But Matthew had given them their client list two weeks prior to them leaving. But Jessica was convinced it was me.
Gram: And he never stuck up for you?
Joy: No, he had no idea. She's a toxic individual. She's extremely fatphobic. And I mean, extremely, I've never met anyone out, and I've never even been to California. She would, she's the most fatphobic freak.
Gram: Actually, that's actually kind of something interesting that you brought up. Annette, you pretty much grew up in California. I know you haven't been to Atlanta, but how do you feel…? From my personal experience, it's difficult because I never noticed if people were being fatphobic or not. Like I was genuinely clueless.
Joy: Oh, I can tell immediately.
Gram: I never really thought about it. I just, I never really cared. I guess I never really noticed it. I don't know.
Annette: People make you notice it.
Gram: Yeah. So is it, do you, would you say that it's something you've experienced a lot out here?
Annette: Because out here we're, we're following trends. There's this pseudo appreciation for all bodies. The gym I go to, there was a woman who was probably 350 or so. And, you know, she was in the front desk to kind of show like anyone can come to this gym.
At the end of the day, it's, I think the fat phobia really, really comes from like the old school cultures out here. We have a very strong Middle Eastern presence. We have a very strong Asian presence. We have a very strong Mexican presence. And it's really the families who instill that in us and make us hate our bodies.
When, and a lot of that resentment that you talked about, Joy, I relate to so deeply. It's kind of like being fat was a big fuck you! And that was comfortable for so long until it became unhealthy.
Joy: Yeah. I never want to be 110 pounds smaller again. I don't like the attention. I don't like the way I'm treated. Because I'm the same exact person. You're only being nice to me because my body has changed. That's it. Period. If I go back to being the old Janine, you are going to go back to ignoring me. So let's be, let's both be clear here and stop playing this game.
Annette: Exactly. It's, I noticed that huge change too. Suddenly I was so interesting to people. Suddenly my body wasn't invisible anymore, and suddenly people didn't want to ignore me anymore. And it was disgusting. I felt disgusted, like violated.
Joy: It's insulting. It's absolutely insulting and it makes you mad. So it's just like, fuck it, I'll be fat again.
Annette: But we're only hurting ourselves.
Joy: Like Oprah. Oprah was very upfront. She was like, yeah, I do Ozempic. I also got type two diabetes and I ain't trying to die.
Gram: Well, but she also has had a problem with her size her whole life.
Joy: Yes. She's very, she's fatphobic towards herself. I think life would be a lot easier if people just minded the business that paid them instead of judging other people. Oh, look at that person. They're overweight.
Well, look at you. You ugly. I can lose weight, but bitch you ugly for life. See, I just wake up and choose violence. This is why I'm single. I'm fat and I'm mean. And I just stay in the house. I have nothing nice to say to people. They're like, she's so quiet. Because I have nothing good to say. Nothing. People have just worn on my last nerve.
Gram: We talked about how you didn't like the way you were viewed. So I guess how are you reconciling this? Cause it kind of sounds like we're running in circles with things that you will have to eventually do.
Joy: You do! You do run in circles. That's what, that's what you do. You literally run in circles. You, you, you eventually have to cave in and become the thing that you don't want to become. And that's where I'm at right now. I, I guess I have to do this again. And this time it has to stick because my body, my body can't take the weight. So I have to lose it. And as a result of losing it, a by-product is getting asked out on dates by people who wouldn't blink an eye to reject me previously.
Gram: With this, with that idea, because you and I talk about how badly you want to go on a date, or you want to meet somebody.
Joy: Eh.
Gram: And I'm wondering, is the fear— Eh, what?
Joy: I'm getting, I want companionship, but the pickings are slim. So I'm just going to probably get a service animal. At least they don't ghost. I mean, I want to go on a date, but just the idea of it stresses me out. I still have my—
Annette: What would you do if your partner was in the same situation?
Joy: I'd be supportive of them.
Gram: How so?
Joy: I would tell them about my experiences and ask them, I don't know. I, I would, I try to be as loving and as considerate as I can.
Annette: She's a Virgo, right?
Joy: I would ask them, what is it that you want? What is your ultimate goal? What is your end game? Weight loss is a terrible journey that I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Annette: I've said that before.
Joy: It's almost like watching Lord of the Rings. It does. And that's what it feels like. Weight loss feels like sitting through all three Lord of the Ring movies.
Annette: Except, except afterward, it does tend to feel better than Lord of the Ring. It's, it feels refreshing. It feels good. But again, comes that creepy little demon that, all that fat phobia and all that guilt. And it's, and it's so hard to knock it away.
Joy: Yeah. And it's like, I have to face, and I feel like I'm making a deal with the devil.
Annette:Yeah.
Joy: That's literally how I feel.
Annette: And I know some people don't understand that. So I want to dive in more into that. This devil, this demon, people are thinking weight loss is so great. They don't understand that we've learned to love our bodies, and that a fat person can be beautiful to themself. And it feels like a betrayal to us, to our body, and to other fat people to suddenly flip on the other side. It's, it's this weird loyalty that we have to say, no, I'm beautiful. I exist.
Joy: Why did you do this? Did you do this because you wanted to do it? Or did you do this because someone told you your career depended upon it?
Annette: Right. I mean, Karl Lagerfeld shamed Adele. Shamed until the day he died. Shamed her. And this is a fabulous, amazing woman who has a residency in Las Vegas. And she would have done that at any weight.
Joy: Karl Lagerfeld was a pig. I don't care how, how fashionable, how much he did for Chanel. He was a pig.
Gram: Well, Chanel was a Nazi. So we'll start there. Chanel was a Nazi. So was Hugo Boss. Karl Lagerfeld is, I mean, he's anorexic. And have you seen his fucking dinosaur teeth? So he can— he, those teeth are made for eating. I don't know why he doesn't.
Joy: Is there any normal designers? I was going to say, who's that?
Gram: Um, Christian Siriano. But the problem is—
Joy: He's very unproblematic. He don't bother anybody. He just makes dresses.
Gram: But the thing is, because he's so popular with, um, with fat women, it is, he's actually, he's looked at as down market.
Joy: And that's terrible.
Annette: I mean, look at the clothing choices that we have. It's like, sometimes I, I tend to be a tomboy, but either way, there's times where I have to buy men's clothing because it's big enough to, to fit.
Joy: Me too!
Annette: Right. You know, and it's like a lot of these, you know, Melissa McCarthy, she came out with her plus size line, but it's still, uh, you know, there's not much out there.
Gram: Where'd you go?
Joy: We lost your network connection. Trying to reconnect.
Gram: Oh, shit. Well, she can't reconnect for some reason. I wonder if her sister turned off the internet.
Annette: Did you feel like your questions got answered?
Gram: Honestly, no. Because what I'm trying to do is lead her toward a decision that I want her to have, because I don't understand… And maybe it's because I've never been as heavy, but I don't understand the… I've never been invisible and I've never been angry about it. I've always just been neutral. You know, I've always just been seen as a neutral person. And if somebody didn't like me, I just assumed that they just didn't like me like whatever.
And so it's hard for me. She's like, I, she keeps saying, I don't want to be thin. And then she says thinner things… And then she says, I don't think about food all the time, but, and I'm trying to like, we have so many conversations I've cut out of the podcast where I'm trying to get to where she's like talking about soup and stuff. And it's like, she thinks about food so much, and she has disordered eating. And she is using, I feel she's using body positivity as an excuse.
Annette: Yes. I, I didn't know how to frame that question. I feel like I was skirting around it, but I, you know?
Gram: Yeah, I mean, that's why I was like, oh, please let's keep going. Cause I know you and I have talked about this…
There's a whole thing with her sister, not wanting her to use the internet for our phone stuff, because she says it's, like, increasing her data usage or something.
Annette: That’s funny.
Gram: And it's like, you work from home all day.
Annette: They have free data now…
Gram: And you're on the computer all day at home. And then this hour, this hour of talking is pushing your BPMs or your MPBBSs. Really? This hour you've been on the, you've been on the phone since 8am. Okay.
Well I'm, I kept rolling, so I'm going to keep all of this. Maybe we could do like a part two. But you see like, how she's like… I don't want to talk like shit, but the way that she, she avoids every option, you know?
Annette: I've been in that situation and it's not easy because it's internalized hate.
Gram: Yeah.
Annette: And it's, it's so hard to, especially, I wanted to ask her to like culturally, cause I've done a, um, an article and a research on organic foods. And what I've found is a lot of people say, well, that's some white people shit.
Gram: She does that!
Annette: I was going to ask her about that because
Gram: She fucking— I have a thing where she was like, you have a 24 inch waist, I don't want your nutrition advice, cause you don't even eat. And I'm kind of like, that's the point of nutritionists. It's like, to fucking make you 24 inches. If you don't want to be 24 inches, stop when you get to 30. But like, you know, like the way down is the way down for everybody. It's not the way down just for fat people versus… you know what I mean?
Annette: I know. It's so hard to get out of that us versus them dichotomy.
Gram: And I never experienced that. I never under, I never had that. I had, I was completely body neutral. Like, honestly, I feel like I was fat positive before fat positivity existed because people called me fat as a kid. And I was like, I know?
Annette: Right?
Gram: Like it didn't affect me?
Annette: Yeah.
Gram: I was one of the first people I, we met at work and I was one of them. She, she, she really admired me, I could tell.
Annette: Right.
Gram: Um, you know, she was like, you are… you know, she just kept complimenting me and stuff. And I was like, you need to chill out. Like, why don't you like yourself? Like, I think she's so pretty. She has the most stunning skin and bone structure. And like, I just think she's so pretty.
Annette: Is she like Blasian?
Gram: So she would say, you know, my sister doesn't think I should wear heels. And I'm like, why not? And she's like, cause fat girls don't wear heels.
Annette: Oh.
Gram: She bought her first pair of wedges after becoming my friend. And then she learned that her fucking knees didn't work. So she'd be like walking down the street like— [demonstrates] She was hurt her so bad. Like the way she walks, she has to like put her feet in a row and like, really saunter. It's a very, and you can see the pain like shifting in her.
Annette: I mean, I, I sat at New Year's dinner and my grandpa was complimenting my [EXCISED] and I just whispered to my sister and all my life, he's been asking me to get gastric bypass surgery.
Gram: Wow.
Annette: You know, it's like, they don't understand. And it took a lot for me to sit there and like, not be the crazy dramatic Annette again! Right? And that, that's, that's a part of my weight loss journey. I'm getting rid of that anger. I see it in her and I understand it. And it's, it's, I'm trying to articulate it the best I can, and get her to articulate it the best she can, because it's like embedded in [us].
Joy: I have no desire to see my rib cage. I just have none. Looking like a chicken wing, no, I'm good.
[~*guitar solo*~]
CrossCast! Excisions: Their Doctor is My Doctor